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Dynamic Range Comparison - See the differences (and similarities) of many cameras  Rate Topic 
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Posted by Robert: Sun Feb 21st, 2021 09:59 1st Post
I stumbled across this just now, seems to me a valuable resource to share.

This is the chart of my current cameras compared with a Nikon D850



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Link to site:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20D850,Nikon%20Df



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Posted by chrisbet: Sun Feb 21st, 2021 13:33 2nd Post
Interesting - I compared my 610 with your 850 :thumbs:



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Posted by Eric: Mon Feb 22nd, 2021 13:03 3rd Post
Robert wrote:
I stumbled across this just now, seems to me a valuable resource to share.

This is the chart of my current cameras compared with a Nikon D850



Click here to comment on this image.

Link to site:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20D850,Nikon%20Df
If I am reading that graph correctly there’s no improvement in dynamic range at any given ISO between the 850 and 800?



So would I be right that the mystery green camera on this graph is the ‘best’ of this 3?



Click here to comment on this image.



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Posted by jk: Mon Feb 22nd, 2021 13:06 4th Post
Can I remind people that these are lab tests done in a controlled environment so as such are not 'real world results'. 
They are probably indicators of what might be obtained on a good day with a following wind by the average user.



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Posted by chrisbet: Mon Feb 22nd, 2021 14:28 5th Post
As I understand it these are technical attributes of the sensors and hence independent of "real world" effects.



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Posted by jk: Mon Feb 22nd, 2021 15:15 6th Post
chrisbet wrote:
As I understand it these are technical attributes of the sensors and hence independent of "real world" effects. Absolutely.

So you change lenses, get water in the atmosphere, change the lighting conditions and the result goes downward (and to the right)!



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Posted by Eric: Thu Feb 25th, 2021 15:21 7th Post
jk wrote: '
Absolutely.

So you change lenses, get water in the atmosphere, change the lighting conditions and the result goes downward (and to the right)!
That’s true for all cameras, so potentially the differences between the cameras profiles will remain the same?



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Posted by jk: Thu Feb 25th, 2021 16:07 8th Post
I dont know but I would expect that the dynamic range at top/bottom end will be more effected.
I am no lens technician but atmospherics are a great leveller!



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Posted by chrisbet: Thu Feb 25th, 2021 18:16 9th Post
I am a novice in this field but are you two talking about dynamic range in the same way that the comparison is being made in?

The dynamic range of an image is, I think, different from the dynamic range of the sensor and while the former will be influenced by the lens etc, the latter won't -  see the article here - https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/dynamic-range.htm.

Or am I up the wrong tree??? :lol:



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Posted by jk: Thu Feb 25th, 2021 19:58 10th Post
Potential dynamic range of the sensor which ultimately gives you an image of good dynamic range.

I personally have always been hugely sceptical of DxO results as they are lab based results.  Having worked for many many years in a lab I know the difference between ..... it works, and it worked in the lab but I cant understand why it isnt the same here!



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Posted by Eric: Fri Feb 26th, 2021 07:50 11th Post
I’ve always thought that the dynamic range of a sensor was simply the number of discernibility tone steps it could see.
Whether you capture all those tones in your image is down to your selected camera settings, the lighting and other environmental factors. 

It’s then possible to digitally manipulate the captured file to potentially recover less discernible tonal detail.

I would be very surprised if any camera achieved its full potential in the hands of the average photographer.



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Posted by novicius: Fri Feb 26th, 2021 07:56 12th Post
I still do not understand why that fantastic d850 sensor is not found in the D6...perhaps something to do with the remarks about labtests vs. Outthere..



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Posted by jk: Fri Feb 26th, 2021 18:50 13th Post
For some reason Nikon dont seem to think that their flagship model needs to have the highest number of megapixels as it was only bought by news journalists and sports photographers who need to have clean high iso images and smaller MP.
For a sports photographer and indeed many photographers 25-30MP is enough especially if you compose the image well.
The higher MP are used by product, fashion and landscape photographers who dont need such robust cameras as their competitors (other pjs) tend to be less aggressive.  I can remember some photographers 'assaulting' other photographers with their cameras so they could get the best spot for the likely photos!  Those were the days when you could freelance and maybe get a great photo that would give you £400-700 for a lucky premium shot!



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Posted by Iain: Fri Feb 26th, 2021 20:27 14th Post
As I’ve said before, 16-20mp is enough for most things. So the 16mp (D4) or 20mp (D5) do most things and at a speed that is needed for sports/wildlife etc.

 


Posted by jk: Sat Feb 27th, 2021 08:19 15th Post
Having to crush 45MP images to send back to newspaper or agency is a pain better to just KISS it and have lower resolution MP image and it also allows for larger photosites so less shadow noise.  All important in pj work when you might be shooting at high ISO.
Nikon will sell loads more cameras to photojournalists, wildlife and sports photographers than to landscape and architectural photographers!
Also like Eric and I have said so often.  Most of the time if the image is well composed then 25MP is more than enough.
That said in my landscape images 45MP is great but 100MP would be better! Going to need bigger computer, more hard disk space, better monitor, more, more, more!  Sometimes enough is enough!



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Posted by Eric: Sat Feb 27th, 2021 16:30 16th Post
jk wrote:
Having to crush 45MP images to send back to newspaper or agency is a pain better to just KISS it and have lower resolution MP image and it also allows for larger photosites so less shadow noise.  All important in pj work when you might be shooting at high ISO.
Nikon will sell loads more cameras to photojournalists, wildlife and sports photographers than to landscape and architectural photographers!
Also like Eric and I have said so often.  Most of the time if the image is well composed then 25MP is more than enough.
That said in my landscape images 45MP is great but 100MP would be better! Going to need bigger computer, more hard disk space, better monitor, more, more, more!  Sometimes enough is enough!
The only possible justification for 50mp is when hard cropping-in is necessary or the final print is going to be ‘wall size’. **

If you are able to get close enough to your subject (with camera position or focal length) to fill the frame such that no subsequent cropping is required, then 25mp is fine. Similarly if you are only printing upto A0.  

Disappointingly, many of the new functions that are desirable/useful only come on the expensive models.... along with the high mega pixels specs.
The D850 is a case in point.


**
Even then, the viewers perception of quality and the viewing situation can counter this. I had one of my D1X 3mp images of a clients articulated lorry projected across the end wall of a major London exhibition centre hosting a haulage expo back in the day. I never saw the projection and I bet purists would have cringed but my client was chuffed to bits....and got loads of business.  That’s what mattered.



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Posted by Iain: Sat Feb 27th, 2021 16:53 17th Post
I’ve seen D3 images done up to poster size and they were fine. In the last few weeks I’ve been taking wildlife images on the D3/4 at 1600iso and they are clean even if I crop in a bit. That for me is the difference with full frame and not too many pixels.

 


Posted by jk: Sat Feb 27th, 2021 18:33 18th Post
I had one of my D2X images blown up to 60"x30" image and it sold for €1500.  The D3 can easily do the same as it is about the image being correctly exposed and the final crop isnt too huge.
It is when you want to make a really nice wall poster at 40x30" and you want it to be really fine grained.  Most modern quality cameras can deliver suitable images.

I have the D850 and Z7 I cant honestly tell the difference between them but I can look at a Hasselblad or Fuji GFX image and tell the difference instantly.  Larger sensor 44x33mm at 50MP makes for really fine images, and that is compared to the Z7 at 45MP so it is also about sensor size as well.



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Posted by Robert: Thu Mar 4th, 2021 20:21 19th Post
I'm glad this topic has raised a constructive discussion, just sorry I haven't been about to contribute.



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Posted by jk: Thu Mar 4th, 2021 21:41 20th Post
Well Robert now you are back I am sure you will keep us on the straight and narrow.



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