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Bird Photography 2020 - Replacing the previous Bird topic of 2019.  Rate Topic 
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Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Mar 7th, 2020 10:28 101st Post
Slightly better comp of the Redshank pix.
.



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 12:11 102nd Post
I have posted this to show how big a blow up the above shot was and same for Curlew pixs. As I have said many times all you need for birds  is a Nikon D850 and the 500mm f5.6 A-FS PF Lens. As previous Chichester Harbour pixs this good winter late pm light sun with haze 1/800 sec F13 800 ISO one spot focus AF-C hand held with VR on.
.



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Posted by jk: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 13:38 103rd Post
Graham, looking at your exposure data, you are using 1/800 sec, F13, 800 ISO.

F13 is possibly suboptimal for diffraction effects.  Or do you think that effects are not really noticeable until f16.

https://www.slrlounge.com/diffraction-wedding-photography-something-to-worry-about/

I try to adjust my exposure so that I use f8 or max f11.  I know f13 is very close to f11. ;-)
Also as a rule of thumb I use max f8 on APS-C (DX) compared to f11 on FF (FX)


What are your thoughts?



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 14:34 104th Post
You made me go back and look at the info for the days shoot. Early in day I was getting F13 and was on 800 ISO but these shots as posted were as light was going and were at 1000 ISO still 1/800 sec (I nearly always shoot shutter priority and fixed ISO) sorry as posted shot: F11 or F10.   With this lens I am very happy if I can get to f16 as dof is a major problem with birds and very long lenses as I was shooting all day with 500mm plus x1.4 = 700mm.  I agree with shorted focal length lenses  F11 is best news but deffraction with small f nos does not seem to be the same problem is was with the older lenses in film days. Then when I did a lot of studio work with 4x5 and 8x10 view cameras I often shot at f32 and got very sharp pix but it was with long focal lenses and the hole is much larger for the same f no with a small camera! Deffraction is the bending of light round a small hole is about tec as I get!
I was talking to another serious bird photographer and was interested to hear he always shoots with aperture priority and auto ISO. (He is a Canon person!!!)

Last edited on Sun Mar 8th, 2020 14:40 by Graham Whistler



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Posted by Eric: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 18:11 105th Post
Graham Whistler wrote:
You made me go back and look at the info for the days shoot. Early in day I was getting F13 and was on 800 ISO but these shots as posted were as light was going and were at 1000 ISO still 1/800 sec (I nearly always shoot shutter priority and fixed ISO) sorry as posted shot: F11 or F10.   With this lens I am very happy if I can get to f16 as dof is a major problem with birds and very long lenses as I was shooting all day with 500mm plus x1.4 = 700mm.  I agree with shorted focal length lenses  F11 is best news but deffraction with small f nos does not seem to be the same problem is was with the older lenses in film days. Then when I did a lot of studio work with 4x5 and 8x10 view cameras I often shot at f32 and got very sharp pix but it was with long focal lenses and the hole is much larger for the same f no with a small camera! Deffraction is the bending of light round a small hole is about tec as I get!
I was talking to another serious bird photographer and was interested to hear he always shoots with aperture priority and auto ISO. (He is a Canon person!!!)
I have tended to err on the side of caution at f11 even with the 500mm. As a result on small bird shots the dof hasn’t always been enough. I have also been concerned going smaller aperture would mean compromising on shutter speed or ISO....both of which bring their own potential negative effects.

I suppose at the end of the day (or even on a UK winter midday 😆) we have to decide which of the three ‘priorities’ is going to be sacrificed. (ie Shutter speed, aperture or ISO)

I often set the camera to Manual and the ISO to auto. I then have selection choice of both shutter speed and aperture... at the expense of the ISO, which is less of a concern with the D850.

Even so, something still has ‘to give’ if lighting is poor.......

1/400th (too slow for small bird) @ f11 (too wide for a small bird) and 4500 ISO (starting to show noise even with the D850).

Perhaps the answer is not to bother taking the photo, if this is all the light allows you. o.O

.

Last edited on Sun Mar 8th, 2020 18:24 by Eric



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Posted by jk: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 19:27 106th Post
Still plenty of detail there for a good A4 print, Eric.



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Posted by Iain: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 21:22 107th Post
Interesting reading this as I use f5.6 to f8 for my wildlife shots.

 


Posted by jk: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 22:00 108th Post
Being a geeky sort of nerd I have an app and it says in general terms that diffraction effects start for FF at f11 and for APS-C at f8.  
Of course unless you are nerdy enough to go and shoot with each lens on each format at every aperture in 1/3 stop increments then look in pixel peeping mode you probably wont notice it or even see it in real life use!



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Posted by Eric: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 22:30 109th Post
Iain wrote:
Interesting reading this as I use f5.6 to f8 for my wildlife shots. I suspect there are many situations when the critters are big enough or distant enough to give sufficient dof at wider apertures. It’s really only an issue using the 500+1.4xtc at close range.  
720mm focused at 5m and f11 means just 30mm dof. :needsahug:

Last edited on Sun Mar 8th, 2020 22:40 by Eric



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Posted by Robert: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 22:45 110th Post
Eric wrote:
Perhaps the answer is not to bother taking the photo, if this is all the light allows you. o.O Well, perhaps but this is a superb image, in my opinion at least, it's spectacular and finely detailed, while you are complaining about some aspects, my only complaint is the 'camera shake' effect on the large tree in the background.  That I find objectionable, never mind the bird, that's fine, look at the background.  I  assume it's a 'feature' of the PF lens causing this effect, I never seen this with conventional telephoto's, or never noticed it anyway...  I imagine a quick application of a blur brush would fix it.

I think you are all too critical of the minutiae in these images while missing the 'whole picture' occasionally.  My eye is drawn instantly to the apparent camera shake on the tree, which it obviously isn't!

As for enlarging it to A4, I just viewed it full width of my 27" iMac, the bird was 14" long from tail to tip of beak and it still looked superb.  I guess that's twice to three times life size?



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Posted by jk: Sun Mar 8th, 2020 23:19 111th Post
Think you are probably correct Robert.
Wood for the trees!

I hadnt noticed the shake on the trees.  Easy to get rid of especially with Eric's Photoshop skills.

Of course it is all about the light, the image, the subject!



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Posted by Eric: Mon Mar 9th, 2020 00:00 112th Post
Robert wrote:
Well, perhaps but this is a superb image, in my opinion at least, it's spectacular and finely detailed, while you are complaining about some aspects, my only complaint is the 'camera shake' effect on the large tree in the background.  That I find objectionable, never mind the bird, that's fine, look at the background.  I  assume it's a 'feature' of the PF lens causing this effect, I never seen this with conventional telephoto's, or never noticed it anyway...  I imagine a quick application of a blur brush would fix it.

I think you are all too critical of the minutiae in these images while missing the 'whole picture' occasionally.  My eye is drawn instantly to the apparent camera shake on the tree, which it obviously isn't!

As for enlarging it to A4, I just viewed it full width of my 27" iMac, the bird was 14" long from tail to tip of beak and it still looked superb.  I guess that's twice to three times life size?
Hmmm. That’s me told off. :lol:

I take your point....something else for me to bitch about....the branches. 😆 

It seems like a rim lighting effect. o.O  It’s there on the nef file so it’s obviously not software or processing related. Maybe it is an effect of the fractal lens resolving back lighting when out of focus?  It’s reminiscent of colour fringing without the colour.



Ive just spent a bit of time looking back at my garden birds files and came across some that were perfectly alright. No sign of this edge effect.

I then looked at the exif ....and they were taken on the Fuji I sold.  :banghead:

Don’t let JK see this post ....I will never hear the last of it. :no:



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Posted by Robert: Mon Mar 9th, 2020 08:23 113th Post
Eric wrote:
Hmmm. That’s me told off. :lol:

I take your point...

I then looked at the exif ....and they were taken on the Fuji I sold.  :banghead:

:lol:  Say no more!!!  :lol:



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Mar 9th, 2020 11:03 114th Post
Has this bit of noise reduction in Photoshop raw filter correction?
.



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Posted by jk: Mon Mar 9th, 2020 11:45 115th Post
Eric wrote:
Hmmm. That’s me told off. :lol:

I take your point....something else for me to bitch about....the branches. 😆 

It seems like a rim lighting effect. o.O  It’s there on the nef file so it’s obviously not software or processing related. Maybe it is an effect of the fractal lens resolving back lighting when out of focus?  It’s reminiscent of colour fringing without the colour.



Ive just spent a bit of time looking back at my garden birds files and came across some that were perfectly alright. No sign of this edge effect.

I then looked at the exif ....and they were taken on the Fuji I sold.  :banghead:

Don’t let JK see this post ....I will never hear the last of it. :no:
Haha I saw it!  :lol::needsahug:
I can sell you a nice XT2 if you like but I actually suggest that you get an XT4 when it arrives as that also has IBIS (no not the bird, but In Body Image Stabilisation) but it is more expensive than the XT3 but it also has a bigger battery.
Bad luck I am no1 on the list to get one from Wex/FixationUK when it arrives in April/May.

I have to say that IBIS like that found in the Nikon Z7/Z6 and Fuji XH1 is a wonderful find.  So much better than the VR offered by Nikon on F mount lenses.  I am wondering if the new S mount lenses are more about the IBIS in the camera than the ability to make better lenses if they have a wider lens/camera body throat.



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Posted by blackfox: Mon Mar 9th, 2020 19:24 116th Post
ah well I'm still plodding on with my olympus gear . as older age and my dodgy ticker are definetly limiting my carrying capabilities but still getting the shots heres a few from yesterday 



.

 


Posted by Eric: Mon Mar 9th, 2020 20:07 117th Post
Lovely lighting and exposure there Jeff. Well done.



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Posted by Eric: Mon Mar 9th, 2020 23:59 118th Post
I haven’t been able to get out and about much lately (wife under the weather) so I’ve been playing with the D850 and garden birds.

Nothing to write home about, just a blackbird in poor lighting. So poor this was at ISO 25,600...and yes I did do some noise reduction on the background but the bird is untouched. I suppose the noise is hidden better on a black bird?



.



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Posted by jk: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 08:33 119th Post
I think we need to be aware and not overly critical of high ISO images.

Eric's blackbird is effectively taken at 5 stops above anything possible by film in times gone by!
Sometimes we forget where we have come from.
I remember push processing Ektachrome 400 to 1600 ISO (+two stops) and the results were muddy golfball grain and mushy images that were dull and almost colourless.



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Posted by Bob Bowen: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 10:37 120th Post
Yes JK. How far IQ has progressed in 25 years. 1995 I purchased my Nikon Coolscan for £2000. Before that the Kodak 35mm scanner was £22,000. Five year latter the Di. I too remember the golfball sized grains regularly pushing Fujichrome to 1600 for sport.



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 11:57 121st Post
Eric that Blackbird is amazing I have never pushed ISO like that. Good to see your interesting images Jeff thanks for sharing them with us.



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Posted by Eric: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 14:30 122nd Post
Graham Whistler wrote:
Eric that Blackbird is amazing I have never pushed ISO like that. Good to see your interesting images Jeff thanks for sharing them with us. If you zoom in on the branch around it’s claws you can see how noisy the whole image was before I de noised the background. I haven’t done any noise reduction on the bird or it’s perch. I did remove one or two hot pixels (chromatic dots) that were visible on the black bird but left the rest of the bird unmolested.

I get the impression that the appearance of intrusive noise seems to occur above ISO 3000 on the D850. But the incremental amount of noise doesn’t seem to be 8x the problem at 25000.

Think I’ve mentioned this before; the ISO level for obvious noise appearance hasn’t changed much from the old days...eg iso1600. It would have been nice to have noise free images up at iso5000, (comparable to the old iso 400) on newer cameras, but it seems as though all the noise control improvement has gone at the higher levels and the middle ground (eg iso2000-6000) less so.

Last edited on Tue Mar 10th, 2020 14:31 by Eric



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Posted by Eric: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 15:04 123rd Post
I’ve reworked the goldfinch image to (hopefully) make the background less objectionable to young Plowden. :devil:


Also, livened up the image contrast and sharpness. It’s still not as punchy as Mr Whistlers version of the image. Maybe that’s a limitation in the sharpening algorithm of Affinity Photo compared to Photoshop?


.



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 16:28 124th Post
I think the Photoshop version has opened up the shadows a bit and the USM has improver sharpness quite well wjt out looking over processed.



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Posted by Robert: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 19:56 125th Post
Eric wrote:
I’ve reworked the goldfinch image to (hopefully) make the background less objectionable to young Plowden. :devil:
:lol: I was feeling pretty weary 'til I read that, thank you kind sir!  I just spent the day on the lathe making a special tool to use in the reassembly of a Land Rover gearbox.

Much better, thanks.  There was nothing wrong with the bird, superb in my opinion.

For those who use current versions of Photoshop and Lightroom the detail enhancement tools are getting better and better, I seem to remember reading somewhere that they are using artificial intelligence to find and enhance fine detail.  I find it very effective, not that I am taking many photo's at the moment.



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Posted by Eric: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 21:34 126th Post
Robert wrote:
:lol: I was feeling pretty weary 'til I read that, thank you kind sir!  I just spent the day on the lathe making a special tool to use in the reassembly of a Land Rover gearbox.

Much better, thanks.  There was nothing wrong with the bird, superb in my opinion.

For those who use current versions of Photoshop and Lightroom the detail enhancement tools are getting better and better, I seem to remember reading somewhere that they are using artificial intelligence to find and enhance fine detail.  I find it very effective, not that I am taking many photo's at the moment.
That makes me feel really redundant.:needsahug:



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Posted by Robert: Tue Mar 10th, 2020 22:38 127th Post
Eric wrote:
That makes me feel really redundant.:needsahug: Awwww, didn't mean to make you feel redundant, I think it's supposed to bring us up to your level?

Chips are becoming so small and powerful I expect much more processing will take place in the camera in the future.



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Posted by jk: Wed Mar 11th, 2020 08:58 128th Post
The Fujis now have that feature in camera using X RAW Studio.  When linked to a computer a RAW file can be converted in camera and sent to computer as a jpg in any of the simulations e.g. Velvia, Acros, Provia, Classic Chrome, etc.

https://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/x_raw_studio/mac/

"Overview

"FUJIFILM X RAW STUDIO" is new RAW conversion software completely different from conventional RAW conversion software.
Once connecting a digital camera to a computer, "FUJIFILM X RAW STUDIO" allows users to:
Convert RAW files in a short time just almost same duration as a camera takes a photo. And it does not depend on the performance of your computer as the FUJIFILM X RAW STUDIO system utilizes the image processor in the camera instead of the CPU in the computer.
Get an image with retained exceptional image quality (tonality, color reproduction, noise reduction, and so on of the camera)."



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Mar 11th, 2020 11:17 129th Post
Here is a dull light 2500 ISO  1/250 sec f8 VR  D850 with 500mm PF Lens plus x1.4 so lens wide open.
.



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Mar 11th, 2020 14:04 130th Post
Yes this IS a wild free Starling. D850 with 500 PF  1/400 sec f10 ISO 1600
.



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Posted by jk: Wed Mar 11th, 2020 15:04 131st Post
Certainly pulling them in Graham.
Superb shots, great quality.



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Mar 12th, 2020 11:53 132nd Post
Prervious image had a drip!
.



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Posted by Iain: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 15:11 133rd Post
I like the one with the drip Graham. :thumbs:

 


Posted by chrisbet: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 16:12 134th Post
Yes - and the drip has an image of the drop above which has an image of branches?

And the eye has an image of Graham with the sun over his shoulder.

Wheels within wheels :coffee:



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Posted by Robert: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 19:31 135th Post
I am always looking for images within the image, often rewarded.

My most remarkable reflection was in the ball of a ball point pen at 5X!  It showed an image of the entire room, almost like a fisheye lens



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Posted by Eric: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 22:13 136th Post
Robert wrote:
I am always looking for images within the image, often rewarded.

My most remarkable reflection was in the ball of a ball point pen at 5X!  It showed an image of the entire room, almost like a fisheye lens
Here’s one I prepared some time ago....especially for you Robert....


Click here to comment on this image.



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Posted by chrisbet: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 22:17 137th Post
I tried the ball bearing thing, but all I got was the very fine scratches on the surface of the ball - need to find an unused one!

Talking of images in images, I used to do artwork and printing for the local Lib Dems - one of the councillors was a bit of a donkey, so I used to hide the image of a donkey somewhere in the background of the photos of him doing his "good deeds" ....



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Posted by Robert: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 23:56 138th Post
chrisbet wrote:
I tried the ball bearing thing, but all I got was the very fine scratches on the surface of the ball - need to find an unused one!
Or a polished chrome or stainless one.  You can get them on eBay, quite big too, up to about a foot in diameter,  no chance of hiding from that, unless you hide in a bush with a very long lens...



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Posted by Robert: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 23:57 139th Post
Eric wrote:
Here’s one I prepared some time ago....especially for you Robert...

Thank you Eric, very clever!



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Mar 18th, 2020 14:38 140th Post
Posting this pix as test as I have not been able to upload today internet problems with people working at home?


Click here to comment on this image.



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Mar 18th, 2020 14:40 141st Post
This is an amazing link to some very high quality bird photography:
Amazing Bird Photography Osprey VS Pelican - Sony A9 - Sony A7RIV



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Posted by chrisbet: Wed Mar 18th, 2020 16:35 142nd Post
Hi Graham - you need to use the YouTube link button in the editor and enter the video page link - I have done it for you and edited your post above.

Yes pretty amazing photos but best viewed with the sound off!!! :lol:



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Mar 20th, 2020 23:28 143rd Post
We had a 2nd trip to Chichester Harbour this week but tide was better but light not so good and less birds! Sadly our Gosport Camera Club now shut for the rest of the season. We are like many of our age now cancelling our two holidays and plan to spend most of our time as instructed at home. The World is in lockdown!

Click here to comment on this image.



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Posted by jk: Sat Mar 21st, 2020 06:48 144th Post
The lockdown is a good time to learn, practice, or refine skills.

I found this on a friend FB page.  It led me to research where it came from.


Click here to comment on this image

https://www.oshonews.com/2020/03/19/poem-kathleen-omeara/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=poem-kathleen-omeara&fbclid=IwAR03G7ix8c1Xzv734eBdo9Rodny4S3nd9nUG5YiZzBPgDsqDRPewJYXAjxY



Sometimes we find great nuggets from digging small holes!



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Posted by chrisbet: Sat Mar 21st, 2020 09:14 145th Post
and, sadly, it never happened.



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Posted by jk: Sun Mar 22nd, 2020 00:15 146th Post
OK back on topic!
:offtopic:

I think that I need to put some more food out for the birds so I can join in this thread.



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Posted by blackfox: Tue Mar 24th, 2020 09:14 147th Post
female stonechat taken a week or so back BV

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Posted by jk: Tue Mar 24th, 2020 09:40 148th Post
Nice shot Jeff.  Hope you are staying isolated.



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Mar 25th, 2020 16:31 149th Post
Another Kestral from previous shoot: Nikon D850 500 PF Lens 1/640 sec f11 at 800 ISO did not publish before as needed Photoshop, head and upper body in quite strong shadow now sorted!

Click here to comment on this image.

Last edited on Wed Mar 25th, 2020 16:38 by Graham Whistler



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Mar 25th, 2020 19:03 150th Post
Sorry uploaded the wrong file with poor colour balance. 

Click here to comment on this image.



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