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Posted by GeoffR: Sun Sep 2nd, 2018 21:19 101st Post
amazing50 wrote: JK Said "I want an SD card to XQD slot adapter.
Still not found one. It must be possible to make."

There should be few problems since both cards can be read by USB.
Problems may be with licensing etc.
Would like one as a second card for my D850.
You have ignored the electronic interface between the USB port and the card. Neither connects directly to a USB port. A card reader is rather more than a socket for the card and four wires to connect to the USB port.

 


Posted by Robert: Mon Sep 3rd, 2018 20:05 102nd Post
Now Panasonic are said to be jumping on the Mirrorless Bandwagon.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasonic-will-announce-its-first-full-frame-system-camera-on-september-25/

Looks like the 4/3rds mount will have to be revised - larger, for full frame.



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Posted by novicius: Mon Sep 3rd, 2018 21:35 103rd Post
I like their Logo " Zseries."...at first glance I thought it said " Zeiss "..



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Posted by amazing50: Tue Sep 4th, 2018 13:48 104th Post
Robert wrote:
Now Panasonic are said to be jumping on the Mirrorless Bandwagon.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasonic-will-announce-its-first-full-frame-system-camera-on-september-25/

Looks like the 4/3rds mount will have to be revised - larger, for full frame.

4/3rds Jumbo :lol:



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Posted by Robert: Tue Sep 4th, 2018 14:38 105th Post
amazing50 wrote:
Robert wrote:
Now Panasonic are said to be jumping on the Mirrorless Bandwagon.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasonic-will-announce-its-first-full-frame-system-camera-on-september-25/

Looks like the 4/3rds mount will have to be revised - larger, for full frame.

4/3rds Jumbo :lol:

:lol:



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Posted by jk: Tue Sep 4th, 2018 20:56 106th Post
This is why it is ALWAYS best to test the camera against your own needs!

How are all the others so wrong/misguided/biased?
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/03/nikon-z7-first-impressions.aspx/#more-126548



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Posted by jk: Thu Sep 13th, 2018 22:50 107th Post
Seems like the Z7 delivery date is still on track for end of September.



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Posted by jk: Mon Sep 17th, 2018 12:18 108th Post
This is for Eric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex5vVy6KBac

This is about Eric's favourite EVF blackout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=w2dJYg7-x94

Note there are some changes to settings required.



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Posted by jk: Mon Sep 17th, 2018 12:19 109th Post
If you are into video this may interest!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNJgTjRD6qo



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Posted by Robert: Mon Sep 17th, 2018 13:11 110th Post
jk wrote:
This is for Eric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex5vVy6KBac

This is about Eric's favourite EVF blackout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=w2dJYg7-x94

Note there are some changes to settings required.

Looks like it's OK. Without the clicking clack.

Isn't that what settings are for? My problem is remembering which menu the one I need is in...



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Posted by jk: Mon Sep 17th, 2018 13:47 111th Post
Well only real use will tell.
I need to find/make time to check it out and write a review. Probably by end of October if it is released at end of September as planned.



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Posted by Eric: Mon Sep 17th, 2018 22:52 112th Post
I thought the only way to stop black out on the new Zs was to drop the image file size down to 16mip? That’s not a fix for me ( if it’s true) it’s a compromise.o.O

I also had no doubts the AF would cope with switching quickly between relatively static subjects in the field of view. The issue is keeping the tracking on the subject when IT IS MOVING quickly and erratically.


I am still not convinced the EVF flickering won’t be distracting and cause you to more easily miss moving subjects.

I would have liked to see a comparison between the Zs EVF and the same view through the D850 viewfinder at same operating conditions.

I am convinced the period of blackout/ flicker on a DSLR is much shorter and far less distracting?

But until I try one I can’t be sure.

Doubting Thomas.

;-)

Last edited on Mon Sep 17th, 2018 23:08 by Eric



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Posted by Eric: Mon Sep 17th, 2018 23:33 113th Post
Don’t get me wrong....I am still interested in. Z body.

But at this time it’s for different purpose.

On a recent trip to a French bird reserve with a friend, I became aware of a failing in my set up or rather approach.

I took my D500 with 300mm and tc attached.

Mike borrowed Jans LUMIX FZ2000.

When we were in the hide I was able to pump off shots ( like the grebes on the bird thread) with my gear. So was mike, admittedly at a lesser 480mm compared to my 630mm, but still croppable without massive quality loss.

What I WASNT able to do, having left my wide zoom in the car, was take scenery, habitat and general shots. Mike was, having a 24-480mm zoom on the LUMIX.

Sure if I had taken my 16-85 lens as well, I could have swopped back and forth. But frankly that would have been a pain In the @rse. Every time I was shooting scenery I could guarantee a bird would pop up demanding the 600mm!!

As it happens it works ok. Mike got the scenery and I got the birds...so we swopped image files. 😆

So apart from always having a second photographer with me it seems to me that I need a second camera with a wide angle lens attached and ready... alongside the long range body and lens.

A Z body and lens might fill that wide range position, alongside the D500 for long reach situations. But the wife’s FZ2000 at a fraction of the Nikon Z options could equally fill that gap ...and some... up to 400mm.

In these wide situations the slowness of the mirrorless is not an issue.

Heck...I used my iPhone and got some good scenery shots on the day!!

Until a Z camera with F mount telephoto lenses attached can be shown to match the D500 with the same lens attached I don’t see it superseding the DSLR or being a complete all rounder....at an economic price.o.O

Last edited on Mon Sep 17th, 2018 23:40 by Eric



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Posted by jk: Tue Sep 18th, 2018 08:23 114th Post
Eric wrote:
I thought the only way to stop black out on the new Zs was to drop the image file size down to 16mip? That’s not a fix for me ( if it’s true) it’s a compromise.o.O

There is a specific mention in the AF test of a setting that requires changing in menus.


I also had no doubts the AF would cope with switching quickly between relatively static subjects in the field of view. The issue is keeping the tracking on the subject when IT IS MOVING quickly and erratically.
That has always been an issue with DSLRs upto the D3 and is still improving. The D500 seems to lead the Nikon pack.


I am still not convinced the EVF flickering won’t be distracting and cause you to more easily miss moving subjects.
That happens in mirrored cameras as well but the mirrorless it is dependent on the EVF rate and your card save speed.


I would have liked to see a comparison between the Zs EVF and the same view through the D850 viewfinder at same operating conditions.
Yes that would be useful.


I am convinced the period of blackout/ flicker on a DSLR is much shorter and far less distracting?

But until I try one I can’t be sure.
I think you are wrong here as logically the mirror up/down time is a defined period usually around 1/15 second (I estimate) which is why there is little point shooting >8fps as you are just machine gunning blindly. Use a video camera instead.


Doubting Thomas.

;-)

No harm in being sceptical!



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Posted by jk: Tue Sep 18th, 2018 08:36 115th Post
Eric wrote:
Don’t get me wrong....I am still interested in. Z body.

But at this time it’s for different purpose.

On a recent trip to a French bird reserve with a friend, I became aware of a failing in my set up or rather approach.

I took my D500 with 300mm and tc attached.

Mike borrowed Jans LUMIX FZ2000.

When we were in the hide I was able to pump off shots ( like the grebes on the bird thread) with my gear. So was mike, admittedly at a lesser 480mm compared to my 630mm, but still croppable without massive quality loss.

What I WASNT able to do, having left my wide zoom in the car, was take scenery, habitat and general shots. Mike was, having a 24-480mm zoom on the LUMIX.

Sure if I had taken my 16-85 lens as well, I could have swopped back and forth. But frankly that would have been a pain In the @rse. Every time I was shooting scenery I could guarantee a bird would pop up demanding the 600mm!!

As it happens it works ok. Mike got the scenery and I got the birds...so we swopped image files. 😆

So apart from always having a second photographer with me it seems to me that I need a second camera with a wide angle lens attached and ready... alongside the long range body and lens.

A Z body and lens might fill that wide range position, alongside the D500 for long reach situations. But the wife’s FZ2000 at a fraction of the Nikon Z options could equally fill that gap ...and some... up to 400mm.

In these wide situations the slowness of the mirrorless is not an issue.

Heck...I used my iPhone and got some good scenery shots on the day!!

Until a Z camera with F mount telephoto lenses attached can be shown to match the D500 with the same lens attached I don’t see it superseding the DSLR or being a complete all rounder....at an economic price.o.O
Yes all good observations but the Lumix has a tiny sensor (1") compared to the D500 (APS-C). Larger crops become a problem then!

The new Nikon P1000 has a longer zoom but a smaller sensor.
https://www.dpreview.com/products/nikon/compacts/nikon_cpp1000
More compromises.



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Posted by jk: Tue Sep 18th, 2018 08:41 116th Post
Compare the sensor sizes....

Attachment: F1A6C9A6-381A-4986-AEF0-BFCE2A7A0B77.jpeg (Downloaded 16 times)



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Posted by Robert: Wed Sep 26th, 2018 07:28 117th Post
An article on the new mirrorless cameras from a punters viewpoint...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45627055

Also the PDF Manual for Z cameras is available, only 484 pages...

https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/492/Z_7.html

Firmware U/D's

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/26/nikon-releases-several-firmware-and-software-updates-180-400mm-p1000-wt-7-sb-5000-and-more.aspx/#more-127634



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Posted by jk: Wed Sep 26th, 2018 08:48 118th Post
Thanks for the Z7 manual link.
Downloaded and will read.



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Posted by Robert: Wed Sep 26th, 2018 09:48 119th Post
What ALL of it???

WOW!

:lol: :bowing:



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Posted by jk: Wed Sep 26th, 2018 11:32 120th Post
Only those bits that I need to know! 😀



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Posted by Robert: Wed Sep 26th, 2018 12:33 121st Post
And don't already... :rtfm: ;-)



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Posted by jk: Wed Sep 26th, 2018 14:54 122nd Post
Well my Z7 kit - Z7 + FTZ adapter and also 24-70mm f4 Z series lens will be on their way to me on Friday.
Everything here is prepared just need the kit. Roll on Saturday or Monday morning for the postman's delivery.



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Posted by Eric: Fri Sep 28th, 2018 13:22 123rd Post
Why are these cameras so heavy?

They are only 100g lighter than a D500.

And 200g heavier than a D5300.

Whilst I wouldn’t consider any of the current D series cameras too heavy ( perhaps excluding the D5), I feel we are being cheated when they are marketed as new lightweight cameras.

Last edited on Fri Sep 28th, 2018 13:33 by Eric



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Posted by jk: Fri Sep 28th, 2018 13:45 124th Post
My Z7 kit is on its way to me.
^_^



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Posted by jk: Fri Sep 28th, 2018 13:50 125th Post
D500 and D5300 are APS-C cameras which have smaller sensors than Z7. But the Z7 and Z6 weigh the same (676g with battery) so it must be that there is additional electronics e.g. EVF that must weigh in pretty heavy. Certainly this is the functionality that eats the battery life.



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Posted by Eric: Fri Sep 28th, 2018 19:40 126th Post
jk wrote:
My Z7 kit is on its way to me.
^_^

All eyes and ears pointing your way Jonathan. The inevitable question will be.... Z7 or D850?

We await your analysis.

:applause:



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Posted by jk: Fri Sep 28th, 2018 21:38 127th Post
Well I will share with you all.

No fanboy analysis as we see some places but a genuine feedbackabout how it works for me.

Seagulls or rook pictures may follow! :-)



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Posted by jk: Fri Sep 28th, 2018 21:39 128th Post
Interesting post in DPR.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7219656533/sigma-confirms-that-its-current-lenses-are-fully-operational-on-the-nikon-z7-with-ftz-adapter

Hope they have tested it all, but I doubt it!



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Posted by jk: Sat Sep 29th, 2018 09:50 129th Post
OK the eagle has landed.
Battery is charging but I have pulled my spare battery for the D850 and am using that no problem.

First impressions is that it is like my XT2 but slightly larger, so in reality like a Fuji XH1.
The EVF is fine for me. I will go out later and shoot some images but I am busy today with F1 GP qualifying watching and building a wardrobe.

First impressions are positive but that is just a handling of the camera. The controls all fall to hand.
FTZ adapter is actually much smaller than expected. Will need to test that out but not for a while as I am so busy with house stuff.

One thing I dont lke is the side door cover for USB, HDMI, remote trigger/GPS connectors. I feels flimsy as it is hard rubbery plastic. I am sure it wont last long!



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Posted by Eric: Sat Sep 29th, 2018 11:25 130th Post
jk wrote:
OK the eagle has landed.
Battery is charging but I have pulled my spare battery for the D850 and am using that no problem.

First impressions is that it is like my XT2 but slightly larger, so in reality like a Fuji XH1.
The EVF is fine for me. I will go out later and shoot some images but I am busy today with F1 GP qualifying watching and building a wardrobe.

First impressions are positive but that is just a handling of the camera. The controls all fall to hand.
FTZ adapter is actually much smaller than expected. Will need to test that out but not for a while as I am so busy with house stuff.

One thing I dont lke is the side door cover for USB, HDMI, remote trigger/GPS connectors. I feels flimsy as it is hard rubbery plastic. I am sure it wont last long!

Those covers always seem to be an after thought or rather no thought in many bodies. I suspect not a lot of people delve into that remote connectivity so don’t challenge the flimsy covers. That doesn’t make it right though.



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Posted by GeoffR: Sat Sep 29th, 2018 11:37 131st Post
I have only ever opened the port covers on the D4 to see what is behind them! I think I have used the external power supply on the D2X a couple of times, likewise the D3 bodies, but only for sensor cleaning. The D4 doesn't have a power socket, Nikon want £150 or so for an adaptor!

 


Posted by jk: Sat Sep 29th, 2018 19:03 132nd Post
OK I took 23 images when I went out with the dogs this afternoon.
Some thoughts and scribblings.......
1. The camera handles well and its AF is better than the Fuji XT2 but probably not as good as the D850. The AF feels and locks on quicker than the XT2 so I am happy with Mirrorless Nikon sp far. Exposure and controls in general work well for me.
2. I really dont like the fact that I have to twist the 24-70 to initiate it. The lens itself seems very sharp but this behaviour is a left over from the V1 series lenses. I will probably be looking to get another Z lens in the future. I am not going to hurry this though.
3. I need to test FTZ adapter with my AFS Nikkors. This will be very interesting.
4. Camera feels very solid and well built except for the flimsy USB/HDMI/GPS accessory door.


I will post some images when I have downloaded and processed.
Unfortunately the greatness of a 45MP image will be lost on any screen.

Am I pleased with my purchase. Yes so far no major disappointments. I will go so far as to say that all the pre-production/release videos and reviews by the USA reviewers that I have seen makes me wonder if the majority of US people arent suffering from some form of Trumpitis or serious whinge syndrome. It just confirms to me that you really must test a camera yourself rather than believe the slanging or hyperbole of idiot reviewers on the internet.



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Posted by jk: Sat Sep 29th, 2018 19:46 133rd Post
Eric that said I havent tested Z7 v D850 for wildlife or bird photos. I would suspect that the D850 will perform better for this type of photography.



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Posted by jk: Sat Sep 29th, 2018 19:55 134th Post
jk wrote:
This is for Eric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex5vVy6KBac

This is about Eric's favourite EVF blackout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=w2dJYg7-x94

Note there are some changes to settings required.

My Z7 came with Menu item d11 set to ON as default so this is something that has been done already.



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Posted by jk: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 08:46 135th Post
This is the lens roadmap for the Z series cameras. For some reason these lenses are S type lenses.

Attachment: F2877147-04A5-435F-85AD-D28336655843.jpeg (Downloaded 6 times)



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Posted by Eric: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 08:51 136th Post
jk wrote:
Eric that said I havent tested Z7 v D850 for wildlife or bird photos. I would suspect that the D850 will perform better for this type of photography.
I don’t want either of these cameras for wildlife. I am happy with the d500 for that.

I want a full frame body for general photography that I can take along with me for scenery shots and general subjects covered by (say) 24-100mm

I really don’t like the idea of swopping about tele and wide angle lenses with a single D500 in the field. Apart from risk to lens and body I can just imagine switching to a wide lens when a bird pops up needing the tele.

I would rather carry two cameras on those outings...but have the full frame for all other photo activities..

The question for me is whether that should be the d850 or the Z6/7?


Or to put it another way.....

What are real benefits of a mirrorless camera over an equivalent DSLR?

From my limited exposure I would say the ONLY benefit is to preview exposure. Sure you can have silent shutter mode and maybe faster FPS on some models. But what else drives us away from a conventional camera?

The bodies may be lighter but the lenses generally aren’t, So weight advantage is small. And while manufacturers may be working to reduce the negatives of shutter blackout and battery use...I still don’t feel driven to pay all that money, just for a camera that previews exposure. I am still leaning towards and D850.

o.O

Not with standing what I said about a mirrorless use on wildlife I would be curious to see how the Z7 performs and feels with an AFS tele lens AND the 1.4xtc both fixed to the necessary Z adapter.

Last edited on Sun Sep 30th, 2018 09:16 by Eric



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Posted by jk: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 09:02 137th Post
In which case then the Z6/7 with the 24-70 would suit.



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Posted by jk: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 09:11 138th Post
I am looking to build a very simple lens set.
14-30 f4
85 f1.8
70-200 f2.8


However I am asking myself the following question. Can I do everything I want or need to do with my current Fuji setup?



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Posted by Eric: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 09:19 139th Post
jk wrote:
I am looking to build a very simple lens set.
14-30 f4
85 f1.8
70-200 f2.8


However I am asking myself the following question. Can I do everything I want or need to do with my current Fuji setup?

I repeat my question....how does a mirrorless trump (sorry) a DSLR? What drives you away from DSLR?



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Posted by GeoffR: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 12:02 140th Post
Eric wrote: jk wrote:
I am looking to build a very simple lens set.
14-30 f4
85 f1.8
70-200 f2.8


However I am asking myself the following question. Can I do everything I want or need to do with my current Fuji setup?

I repeat my question....how does a mirrorless trump (sorry) a DSLR? What drives you away from DSLR?
Eric, if you are the manufacturer the reduced necessity of skilled workers, because alignment of all the parts is all but removed.

If you are the user, as far as I can see, none what so ever in most cases. Ultimately there may be some advantages but my experience with a mirrorless and EVF was far from positive.

 


Posted by jk: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 12:58 141st Post
Eric wrote:
jk wrote:
I am looking to build a very simple lens set.
14-30 f4
85 f1.8
70-200 f2.8


However I am asking myself the following question. Can I do everything I want or need to do with my current Fuji setup?

I repeat my question....how does a mirrorless trump (sorry) a DSLR? What drives you away from DSLR?

I prefer to take less pictures, than more, especially with the size of image files. I find the mirrorless allows me to produce my previsualised image more easily that a DSLR that doesnt have the EVF.
Since I moved to mirrorless I probably take 1/2 to 2/3 less images than I did with my D3.



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Posted by Eric: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 21:30 142nd Post
jk wrote:
Eric wrote:
jk wrote:
I am looking to build a very simple lens set.
14-30 f4
85 f1.8
70-200 f2.8


However I am asking myself the following question. Can I do everything I want or need to do with my current Fuji setup?

I repeat my question....how does a mirrorless trump (sorry) a DSLR? What drives you away from DSLR?

I prefer to take less pictures, than more, especially with the size of image files. I find the mirrorless allows me to produce my previsualised image more easily that a DSLR that doesnt have the EVF.
Since I moved to mirrorless I probably take 1/2 to 2/3 less images than I did with my D3.

That’s what I believe to be the main advantage of mirrorless...previewing exposure. I’m struggling for a second meritous point.

But that may be enough.o.O



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Posted by Robert: Sun Sep 30th, 2018 22:12 143rd Post
What I yearn for from a camera is what I had with the Bronica S2a, a ground glass screen which I could fine focus with a loupe and compose a picture (albeit inverse) usually on a tripod, in a leisurely fashion.

This is quite different from action photography, which frequently requires multiple rapid exposures with very quick response.



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Posted by GeoffR: Mon Oct 1st, 2018 09:13 144th Post
My main objection to EVFs, based on an Olympus OM-D EM 5, is that I couldn't see whether the image was in focus through the finder. With an SLR I always assess focus on the focusing screen before pressing the shutter. With the EM 5 it was very much a case of trusting the AF to have got it right.

Unless the much improved EVF of the Z series has resolved this issue I don't see the advantage of going mirrorless. It simply doesn't do what I need.

 


Posted by jk: Mon Oct 1st, 2018 13:10 145th Post
Geoff that is either a function of you using the wrong glasses prescription or not adjusting the dioptre on the camera viewfinder correctly.

The EVF renders and image equally well as a optical system. What does differ between the two is the refresh rate. Under poor light conditions and where there is fast movement depending on the EVF refresh rate the rendering can be extremely poor.
At >4MP EVF become common and with fast refresh rates the difference between OVF and EVF become an item of preference rather than functional difference.



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Posted by GeoffR: Mon Oct 1st, 2018 20:05 146th Post
jk wrote: Geoff that is either a function of you using the wrong glasses prescription or not adjusting the dioptre on the camera viewfinder correctly.

The EVF renders and image equally well as a optical system. What does differ between the two is the refresh rate. Under poor light conditions and where there is fast movement depending on the EVF refresh rate the rendering can be extremely poor.
At >4MP EVF become common and with fast refresh rates the difference between OVF and EVF become an item of preference rather than functional difference.
Actually I suspect it is a function of a 1.6MD EVF with a 16MP camera losing much of the detail. If it were my prescription I would have the same problem with an SLR.

 


Posted by jk: Mon Oct 1st, 2018 20:59 147th Post
Is the OM only 1.6MP in EVF? Eeeek. Very grainy!



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Posted by GeoffR: Tue Oct 2nd, 2018 09:08 148th Post
jk wrote: Is the OM only 1.6MP in EVF? Eeeek. Very grainy!I believe the Mk2 is better however I wasn't prepared to spend more money on another system in the vague hope that the viewfinder might be adequate. I ditched the EM5 for a D4 which delivers the results I require.

 


Posted by jk: Tue Oct 2nd, 2018 14:49 149th Post
GeoffR wrote: jk wrote: Is the OM only 1.6MP in EVF? Eeeek. Very grainy!I believe the Mk2 is better however I wasn't prepared to spend more money on another system in the vague hope that the viewfinder might be adequate. I ditched the EM5 for a D4 which delivers the results I require.
I think you made a good decision.
I think 4/3 is a nice format but too small for critical work especially if you want to crop and make enlargements.



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